Yohance Harrison 0:00

But. But I want this to be. And just a some conversations around what to expect when you're on this journey financially. What to expect financially when you're on this journey of going from high school to college, college to medical school, medical school residency, and eventually to an attending physician or a nurse or a nurse practitioner or a medical assistant, whichever your journey may be into that medical field. All of them cost a lot of money to get there. So with Andrew, I'd like to hear from you over your last decade of doing this. What would you say if you were to. Let's call a top five. What would you say are your top five mistakes that you've seen resident medical students, residents or early attending physicians make with their finances?

Seth Harrison 0:57

Welcome to becoming and Attending a guide for future ER Physicians. Each episode delivers financial insights into navigating undergrad, medical school, residency, fellowship, and becoming an attending physician. Your host, behavioral financial advisor, Johance is here to ensure you're surviving and thriving through your transitions. Now let's get started.

Yohance Harrison 1:25

Welcome to the Money Script podcast. It's your host, Johance Harrison. So happy to be here with each and every one of you today. We started in January of 2020 after making a promise to a friend, a mentor that I would eventually start a podcast. And then he finally said, you got to do it. And I said, okay, fine, I'll do it on January 20th. And I did, and here we are. So I have my good friend here with me, Andrew McFadden from Found. He is the founder of Panoramic Financials. So this is going to be a little bit of a between two advisors, but it's going to be for a specific listener. Before you turn it off. Hold on. You might be the specific listener. And actually, let me say this. We're going to be talking about a specific subset of individuals. However, there's going to be something that everyone can learn from. But I wanted to because of the work that I've been doing, also that Andrew's been doing in the medical community. I wanted to do an entire season that was dedicated specifically to medical students, residents, and those brand new attending physicians. Because what I've learned from working with them over the years, as Andrew has as well, y'all are unique and, and we thank you for what you do. I mean, I, I will say I've been the on the receiving end of physicians and I've talked about that in other seasons. Go back and listen to that at another time. But I've been on the receiving end of, of having, of needing the services of a physician. Of needing them to, for lack of a better term, save my life. Saved my mother's life, my father's life, sister's, my daughter's life, my wife's life. Okay, yes, my. Both my daughter and wife were in a in ICU at the same time. So I, I appreciate what you all do and I, and I'm very grateful for all of the dedication and the education and the years that you spent to learn and hone your craft so that you can take care of us. And now this is just my way of saying thank you. What I'd like to do is take care of you. Now, I'm not going to solve all your problems in a podcast, but I am going to at least give you some things that you can start thinking about, give you some of the questions you should ask, give you some of the pitfalls and the mistakes that others have made. I have multiple physicians and nurse practitioners and medical students and residents that have already said yes to be on this podcast so they can share with you some of the things that they've learned so that hopefully you can learn through them and not have to make the same mistake. Because yes, we can learn by doing and making mistakes, but we can also just learn from others. So with that, for those of you watching on YouTube, you're like, wow, that guy knows how to let you do an intro. So I want to bring in Andrew. So, Andrew, thank you again for joining me on the Money Script podcast. Now, quick thing about Andrew, he also I mentioned he also specializes in working with folks in the medical community. So, Andrew, why don't you just tell the audience a little bit about yourself, how long you got and, well, how you got in financial planning and why you work with people in the medical community.

Andrew McFadden 4:16

Yeah, well, thank you, Johannes. It's a great pleasure for me to be on here today and greatly admire and respect what you've been doing in the community of physicians out there. And so this is going to be fun. But yeah, just a little bit of background on me. I've had my own firm that focuses on young physicians called Panoramic Financial for the past 10 plus years. Before that kind of what got me interested in the financial industry is I had family members, namely my parents and two of my grandmothers that just had very poor experiences with financial advisors taken advantage of for various reasons. And it just obviously piqued my interest of how do you do this well and are there good advisors out there? And so that was a long process through college, post college, taking a few jobs in the financial Industry. But eventually I made my way to become a financial advisor in my late 20s. And at that point, I just had a really random but lucky opportunity to speak at a local residency program here in Fresno, California. And we got invited out. Didn't really know much about physicians, so I remember reading as much as I could and. And learning to try to offer something good. And through that process, we learned about White Coat Investor and other physician financial resources. But I had just such a good time during that presentation that we did. But also after the presentation, just getting to talk to the physicians, hear about their problems, hear about their concerns, hear about their goals. And for me, that was fun because not only were they my peers being approximately the same age, but I also saw a group that was, you know, unfortunately, highly taken advantage of in the financial community. All too often true. And so that really resonated with kind of why I got into the business. And so it was at that moment I pretty much decided that I wanted to start a firm that could help, you know, young physicians, especially as they made that transition from training into their attending careers.

Yohance Harrison 6:32

So. And Andrew, I appreciate you for the work that you're doing in this community as well. Like I said, I've been on the receiving end. And I often say to my young residents and young physicians that sometimes when I'm at work, I think about home. And hopefully most of them are pleasant thoughts. But let's admit it, we're human. We stress about things. That's just kind of the human condition. And the last thing I want my physician to be stressed about as they are operating on myself or anyone else is their finances. And with the high cost of becoming a physician, the amount of physicians out there that end up in hundreds of thousands of debt right before they even get their first paycheck is more than the minority. Actually, it was a study that came out recently. I'll put it in the notes. But it was. It was a significant amount of physicians, Andrew, I think I texted to the other day, I might have emailed it to you. Well, it said that the average physician is coming out of medical school with at least $200,000 in debt. And that statistic, I think, was already four or five years old. And I don't think college has gotten any cheaper, at least not for medical school hasn't. And it's not going to get any cheaper, at least in the near future. I mean, there are some schools. Kudos to them. There are a few schools. So for those of you that are in college listening to this, we'll put that in the show notes as well. There are a few schools that are offering free tuition for individuals that want to go to medical school if your family income is under a certain amount. There was another one just announced this week. Was it John Hopkins or something? It was another one just announced this week. Under $300,000. You want to go to medical school. If that's your household income is under that amount, then they're offering free tuition. But I'm sure those are going to get gobbled up pretty quickly. But for the most of us, we're still going to have to find ways to finance our, to finance our way through school and then just not financing through, through getting through. Medical school is also once you become a resident, you know, if you're, if you're a resident in, in a few key cities across the United States, it might take a half of your paycheck just to pay your rent. Because residents don't get paid that well, you know. And if you're in New York, I'll say the cities, if you're in New York, if you're in D.C. if you're in Miami, if you're in

Andrew McFadden 7:04

Right.

Andrew McFadden 7:23

Right.

Andrew McFadden 8:43

Right.

Yohance Harrison 8:57

Los Angeles, might be okay in Fresno, but Los Angeles,

Yohance Harrison 9:02

the cost of renting is, is significant. So especially if you're single and you don't have a, you know, you're not living with someone else that can help share those costs, it can be a, a tough journey. So. Well, that's, that's really what this podcast, this season of the podcast is about. We want to, to talk about some of the things. Let's. I. It reminds me of the book for those of you that have children out there, you may have seen the book at some point. What to expect when you're expecting. Yeah, it's like the, the bible of having a child. Apparently it's actually a very scary book because it, most of it is all the scary things that can happen. Every time my wife would burp, she was like, oh, gosh, does that mean that I have burpelitis or something? Like, probably. So that's probably what it is. But I want this to be just some conversations around what to expect when you're on this journey financially, what to expect financially when you're on this journey of going from high school to college, college to medical school, medical school residency, and eventually to an attending physician or a nurse or a nurse practitioner or a medical assistant, whichever your journey may be into that medical field. All of them cost a lot of money to get there. So with that Andrew, I'd like to hear from you over your last decade of doing this, what would you say if you were to, let's call a top five, what would you say are your top five mistakes that you've seen resident medical students, residents or early attending physicians make with their finances?

Andrew McFadden 10:43

Yeah, well, I would say number one is not educating themselves. Unfortunately, no financial education is really offered through med school or training unless we're lucky enough to get into their program somehow.

Yohance Harrison 10:58

Yeah, I was like, wait a minute, I know a couple of them that have some. But no, you're right. Yeah, most don't.

Andrew McFadden 11:03

It's not a focus, it's not common. And so the responsibility is then on the young physician to seek that out themselves. And I understand it's intimidating and I understand why so many people put it off, but I would say that's mistake number one. Because, you know, even, even becoming aware of how you might be able to get help via a financial advisory firm like we have is part of that educational process. Right. It doesn't mean you have to go out and learn everything about finance, but just to be more aware of the basics of, hey, it's important to save, it's, you know, important to pay off debt, things like that. And so not, not attempting to find that type of information or seek that help, I think is probably the biggest mistake that I see people make. But secondarily, the more specific mistakes, I guess, when it comes to finances, just, number one, not, not having a budget, you know, and, and again, it's the thing we all hate to do, hate to track our expenses, hate to restrict ourselves and especially physicians. Oh, yeah, go ahead.

Yohance Harrison 12:13

I have a. There's, there's something. I was talking, I was on another podcast earlier today and the gentleman I was with, his name is, you know, Ben. I was with Ben back and I had a podcast earlier today. And for those of you that want this go back season five episode, I don't know 23.

Yohance Harrison 12:31

So Ben shared his first memory of money and he talked about his, his mother balancing her checkbook. And as he was saying that, I, I, it dawned on me that there was a time where we didn't have a choice, right, to tracking our money because either we had it in cash and there was no such thing as bouncing your cash. It was like, oh, sorry, you don't have enough money. Get out of my line. Next. There was such thing as balancing a check, but if you were, if you took the time to balance your checkbook, then the likelihood of something like that happening was, was low. But you, but you were forced to do it. You had to do, you had to balance your account. And, and I remember I kind of lived in between both of those things. I remember going, you know, going to the ATM machine to just to check my balance before I went to go do whatever with my debit card or calling the number and pressing in my debit card number and PIN number and then it says your balance is 18 cents. So we were forced to have to look at those things and didn't mean that we necessarily were better at budgeting, but we were better at paying attention to what we actually had. But now, thanks to technology, thanks to PayPal, Zelle Venmo cash app, Apple Pay, Google Pay credit card, debit card for those that are still writing checks, there's so many avenues and access to the money. It's silly to try to do mental math. Like that, that's just that, that is setting yourself up for failure if you're going to try to do mental math on that. So, so, yeah, so that means budgeting becomes essential. And I said this to a group of residents last night. A lot of people look at budgeting like it's restrictive. And it is at first. But once it becomes more of a habit and how you live your life is actually very liberating. Because it frees you from stress. Okay. Andrew, you've got a gray hair or two, so I'm sure. And you were, I know you weren't always successful. I'm confident there was a time in your life where you did a swipe.

Andrew McFadden 14:05

Yeah.

Andrew McFadden 14:25

Right.

Andrew McFadden 14:29

Right.

Andrew McFadden 14:36

Yeah.

Andrew McFadden 14:49

Yep.

Andrew McFadden 14:53

And pray several times. There's even a few times I remember taking a little cash advance on the, on the credit card while the business was getting started up.

Yohance Harrison 15:05

There you go. Swipe and pray. Like, I hope this goes through. I have a buddy, he, he jokes about it. Now we'll go out and him and I like to go out and have a really good time. We go out, get a really nice dinner and we're talking or we're spending a few hundred dollars and he'll pull out his wallet and he'll pull out a couple cards and he'll say, this one, this one should work. You know, if it doesn't, don't make a big scene. Just, just come back over to me and I'll give you a different one. And then he'll, he'll play around like, no, no, no, actually do this one. And it, I always get a kick out of. But the, the, the waitress or waiter is always looking like, why are you Giving me a card. That's probably not. And it's always going to work. And then, of course, when the waiter or waitress comes back, like, it went through, man. All right, well, I hope you authorize a big enough tip on it because it's not going to go through after this. But that he's being fun and light hearted with it. But, but that is, that's, that's no way to live, especially in a profession like the one that you, listener, are potentially seeking. All right, so we had, number one was the overarching thing was not getting financially educated. And I think that is a solid number one. That is it, yes. Not getting the financial education. So 1A, as you would call it, would be not having a budget or understanding how to create a budget and living within a budget. What do you have next up on the list?

Andrew McFadden 16:26

Yeah, I think the next thing would probably be more on the lines of, you know, protecting what we call your most valuable asset, which is just your future income. And that becomes a

Andrew McFadden 16:42

tool of, you know, finding disability insurance and protecting yourself not just, you know, from any kind of, you know, hazard that might come to you as a physician, but like, you've got to, you've got to get a policy that's specific to your profession because if you don't, you know, you could, quote, unquote, be insured, but you might not actually be insured as a physician. You could end up having to work some other type of job. So, yeah, I'd say that's the next thing I'm seeing most often is just, you know, physicians not protecting their income, whether that's in training or, you know, definitely last possible moment they should be doing that is when they start their first attending job.

Yohance Harrison 17:29

Okay, so I just did some quick Google searches. Here

Yohance Harrison 17:34

in the United States, the average income of a physician is stated to be $339,000.

Andrew McFadden 17:40

Okay?

Yohance Harrison 17:41

It's the average. So for the purposes of keeping the math easy, can we just use 300,000? You okay with that, Andrew? Okay, sounds great. 300,000. The average career span, length of career for a physician is between 31 and 36 years. So just again, to keep our math easy, can we use 30 years?

Andrew McFadden 18:02

Yep, sounds good.

Yohance Harrison 18:04

So let's not even put inflation in the equation. I'm gonna pull out my calculator here because, you know, I just talked about the middle math thing. I'm gonna put in 300,000 and multiply it by 30. So without

Yohance Harrison 18:20

any inflation, that's a baseline of $9 million of earnings.

Andrew McFadden 18:26

It's crazy.

Yohance Harrison 18:27

Okay, being that it is football season,

Yohance Harrison 18:33

what is the average income of an NFL player?

Andrew McFadden 18:38

It's a good question.

Yohance Harrison 18:42

The average player salary is around 3.2 million. Are you okay if we just do three, Andrew? Okay, we'll go with three. What's the average

Andrew McFadden 18:48

Yep.

Yohance Harrison 18:56

tenure

Yohance Harrison 18:59

of an NFL player.

Andrew McFadden 19:04

Who.

Yohance Harrison 19:04

Three years.

Andrew McFadden 19:06

What? Surprising.

Yohance Harrison 19:08

Surprising. So you're telling me that as a physician, on average, you'll make over 30 years what an average football player makes in three,

Yohance Harrison 19:21

huh.

Yohance Harrison 19:24

Now, these football players, they get lots of insurance. There are football players that will insure specific parts of their body so that if they can no longer perform that they still have some sort of income.

Yohance Harrison 19:39

And

Yohance Harrison 19:41

I, I could get it because they're out there sacrificing their body every single day. Or not every day except Tuesdays, but the other days they're out there sacrificing their bodies and getting beat up and all that other stuff. And, and I can see how people look at, okay, that's a high risk job. But the truth is it's high risk just walking around town. Getting in your car or just living. I mean, I'm prime example of it. I had to have my thyroid removed six months ago. Well, now, nine months ago now. And it was all benign, but for a moment there, we didn't know. That could have been a debilitating something for me. And I also come from. My mother was disabled, so I get it. So you're right, Andrew. Protecting your number one asset, which is your ability to get up and go to work every day, is imperative. And let's think about it. The reason you have a job is because people, things go wrong for people. They get sick, injured. You're dealing with. You're seeing real life happen every single day in your profession. So I agree with you, Andrew. Making sure that you are protecting your number one revenue source. There was a story once was told to me when I first started in the career, and this was how we were taught to present to disability insurance. Yes. I'm going to give you all how the sausage is made. So the analogy that we were told is that if you happened to come across a golden goose and that goose laid one golden egg every day,

Andrew McFadden 19:46

Right.

Andrew McFadden 20:06

Yeah.

Yohance Harrison 21:24

would you want to ensure that golden goose in case of theft or if it died prematurely?

Yohance Harrison 21:33

And the answer was always, well, yeah, of course. Yeah, well, how much would you insure it for? And the answer was, as much as I can. Great, Andrew, you're a golden goose.

Yohance Harrison 21:48

That was our, that was our way to, to, to help clients understand how valuable their Ability to generate an income is. And how they would easily ensure inanimate objects like cars. Cars can be replaced. Face it, houses. Some people even insure a plane ticket. Yes, you can buy insurance for a plane ticket. Okay. But then when they have the conversation about buying insurance for their income, all of it's like, I don't want any insurance.

Yohance Harrison 22:24

Okay, well, let's go ahead and cancel the auto insurance and the home insurance. What do we got this medical insurance for? Because guess what? Your income is what makes all those things possible? Sorry, got on soapbox. You were talking.

Andrew McFadden 22:37

So we have.

Yohance Harrison 22:40

Financial education, financial literacy, budgeting, ensuring your number one asset. What would you say is number four, sir?

Andrew McFadden 22:51

Yeah, I think the biggest thing we encounter with, again, the younger physicians is just having a plan for their student loans and not.

Yohance Harrison 23:01

I knew the dirty word was coming soon.

Andrew McFadden 23:03

Yeah, we'll bleep. At home not turning a blind eye to it because, again, they're intimidating. And I think in medical school especially, you almost start to become numb to the monopoly money, if you will, of those student loans. And, you know, you. You realize that I can't even think about this or address it. And then you get to residency and you're like, can I make an impact? And you immediately find out again, you can't because you don't make enough money. But there are some key choices, even in residency, that you can be making to help minimize your total payments over time. And so it's crucial at that stage to consider what needs to be done or to seek professional help, a professional opinion on what is the best strategy while you're in training. And then that just gets amplified even more once you become an attending. And as. As much as the student loan environment is changing these days, it's. I mean, when is it, though?

Yohance Harrison 23:04

We'll bleep that out for the kids.

Yohance Harrison 24:00

I heard nothing. Well, who knows? By the time we've putting this podcast out, maybe there is change, but lately there's been no change. It's been stuck.

Andrew McFadden 24:07

Yeah, well, I mean, there's proposed changes, right? Like, I mean, we're talking about all the new repayment plans, but I mean, on the sidelines with interest rates going up, that's been a dramatic change that's happened over the past two years that has made it less advantageous to even consider refinancing your student loans. You know, where most people are staying in the federal loan system, even if they don't qualify for public service loan forgiveness. And so from our standpoint, yeah, maybe things aren't changing as much but you know, for a student loan borrower who doesn't know much about this, and there's so many forgiveness programs and so many options, it's quite overwhelming. And so, you know, the gut reaction is let's, let's just not worry about it right now. I'll get to it later. But that would definitely be a huge mistake.

Yohance Harrison 24:57

Huge mistake. Huge mistake. Yes. I've, I've met quite a few people that made that mistake in residency and did not look into their options. Now fortunately there were some changes that happened to the student loan program and they were able to go back and recapture some of that information. So what I'm speaking to is public student loan forgiveness. So something to know that with public student loan forgiveness, if you're working for a non profit organization and you have federal loans, those loans may qualify for a forgiveness program and there's a certain amount of payments you have to make. We'll go into those details in another episode when we go deep on it. Actually have some folks from a student loan refinance company. We're going to talk about that a bit.

Yohance Harrison 25:45

But what they missed out on was starting the clock on their public student loan forgiveness and had the rules not changed to let them go back and backdate that, they still would not be on the path for forgiveness today. Because if you do a four year residency at a public institution, that's four years. All you need is six more. Okay. Because it's 10 years based. 120 payments. So. So yeah, not understand putting your head in the sand and not asking for help in seeking some guidance on what your options are and just clicking the F button, which is forbearance. You got to be careful about clicking that button because, because yeah, it can be kind of daunting to, to get your first job. You've been in school now for what you had college and medical schools. You've been to school for eight years and you get your first job and you're getting paid four or five thousand dollars a month. And meanwhile they tell you your first payment for your student loan is $4,000.

Andrew McFadden 26:38

Right.

Yohance Harrison 26:44

I'm not doing that. Forbearance. Wait, you actually might have some other options. So, so yeah, so that's a good one. That's a good one. Okay. So for those of you keeping track, financial literacy, budgeting, protecting your number one asset, coming up with a student loan plan and getting educated on that. And how would you round out number five, sir?

Andrew McFadden 27:07

Yeah, I'll, I'll keep it kind of vague to start, but just Thinking about and planning for the future. You know, as soon as you jump.

Yohance Harrison 27:16

Into that, that was my five, two. I'm glad we didn't, by the way, by the way, we did not talk about this together. He didn't even know what we were going to talk about. He just KN were going to talk. So great job, Andrew. You're picking up what I'm putting down. We do something similar.

Andrew McFadden 27:31

Sounds like it. We better talk about that afterwards.

Yohance Harrison 27:35

We might.

Andrew McFadden 27:36

But yeah, just you know, thinking for the future and I think this is again just something that doesn't happen naturally. Right. Like you've been working so hard to become an attending physician and you almost take this deep breath of like, ah, I've made it. Finally I can start to enjoy some of the fruits of all my hard work and to immediately think, oh, I need to be responsible again and start planning for retirement or you know, buying a house or saving for my kids college. Just it feels like, man, can I, can I catch a break just for a moment, you know. And so, you know, it's, it's having that thought. But I mean the most specific of those goals that's so important to get started on right away is, is saving for retirement. And that's, you know, mostly highlighted and I'm sure you're going to get into this a lot is just how powerful our savings can be when we start investing early. And allowing that compounding to take place over time is, is magic. And you're not going to see it in residency. You don't have enough time and you're not investing enough money. But you know, once you've been an attending physician for a few years, investing very diligently and very purposefully, you know, you start to hit your five year, seven and you start to see, man, this, I see where this is going finally, you know, I see how this is eventually going to get to the point where I can choose not to work and I'm going to have enough money to just scrape earnings off the top and live off of that. And that's really powerful. And so I hate seeing new attending physicians not take advantage of retirement plans or not putting money away because it's a, it's just a huge opportunity lost.

Yohance Harrison 29:18

There was a statistic because I like statistics by the ama, pretty reputable organization that said that the average physician under 50 has less than half a million dollars saved.

Yohance Harrison 29:36

It actually it doesn't matter if you're a physician or not. If you are in any profession where you're making six figures or multiple six figures and you hit 50 and you don't have, and you have less than a half a million dollars.

Yohance Harrison 29:52

I mean, how do I say this in the most polite way? Good luck.

Andrew McFadden 29:59

Yeah.

Yohance Harrison 30:01

You're gonna have to, you don't have to make some dramatic habit changes or you're one of those individuals that, that is counting on mom, dad or grandma passing away and leaving you all of their money. Maybe that's you. And if that's you, hey, okay, that, that, that, that's your retirement plan. Cool. But for the rest of us that don't have that, if, if you're approaching 50 and you have a multiple six figure income and you have less than a half a million dollars, you're in trouble. Meaning you're not going to be retiring on your terms unless some dramatic changes happen in your lifestyle, for sure. Lifestyle, in your habits. And that's just, that's just math. Yeah, that's, that's just the math. So, so that's why, and I'm glad that was your number five. But that is why. Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen. Well, that was interesting. Well, gentleman's. There we go. Ladies and gentlemen. That is why

Andrew McFadden 30:11

Right.

Yohance Harrison 31:08

we are doing this season of the podcast to focus on talking about some of these pitfalls in hoping that it will give you that little spark that causes you to go pick up a financial book. And we're gonna, I'm gonna make sure I give you all of you financial books, every single episode that you can read to help improve your finances. Matter of fact, Andrew's gonna tell us the first one. He didn't know that either. But I'm gonna make sure that you have a recommendation of a book that you can either read or you can listen to. And I encourage you if you are, especially if you're a medical student, you're a resident, go to your fellow medical students and residents, say, hey, let's read this book together. Let's hold each other accountable. Let's read a chapter a week or a month, what have you, you gotta take your mind off of medicine every now and then, take a couple hours or an hour or so and put it into finances and starting to get familiar with financial terms. So that when the time comes that there is some money coming in and you need to make some decisions, you're a little bit more equipped to understand the conversations that are had, that, that are, that, that you will need to have and that are being had. So with that, typically for those of you that are normal listeners, we like to ask our guests what their first memory of money is. But like I said, we're doing something a little bit different this episode or this season. What we are going to end with is, Andrew, if you could give our guest a book recommendation, what would it be? And then make sure you tell everyone where they can find you if they want to reach out.

Andrew McFadden 32:35

Yeah, there's a lot of good options out there. But specifically for the community that we serve, this is, like, I already mentioned it earlier, where I got my start. The. The book would be the White Coat Investor is written by a physician who.

Andrew McFadden 32:54

Written by a physician who had, you know, poor experiences. There you go

Andrew McFadden 33:00

early on with friends that he knew from his past, whether it was high school or college, I can't remember. And they were more on. On the. The sales side of the spectrum. And. And he got into products that he found out later weren't ideal for him. And that's where his kind of world opened up to finance and learning about this stuff. And that's what led him to write the book, because he wanted to be an advocate for physicians. And so it's such a great starting point, I think, because there's a lot of basics in there, because he understands what it's like to be a physician and not have that financial starting point. But also it's so specific to physicians. And so you. You really feel like, you know, you're reading from somebody who understands your situation and knows what you're going through. And that feels really good when you. When you go through a book of such a heavy topic like personal finance. But I also know he's written a few other books to where they even apply, like specifically to med students or physicians in training. And so, you know, you can get one even more specific to you if you. If you want to go that far.

Yohance Harrison 34:03

Good recommendation. And Andrew, if the, if anyone in the audience wants to reach out to you and learn more about your services, where can they find you?

Andrew McFadden 34:11

Yeah, two. Two best places is you can visit panoramicfinancial.com

Andrew McFadden 34:16

or you can also follow me on YouTube. It's YouTube.com

Andrew McFadden 34:21

backslash@panoramicfinancial.

Andrew McFadden 34:23

We'd love to connect if. If that's something you're interested in.

Yohance Harrison 34:28

Sounds like a plan. Well, Andrew, I appreciate you spending some time with us on the MoneyShare podcast. As usual. I do have one. I'll give you two assignments. Assignment number one, if you made it all the way to the end, take a little bit more energy. And just what do you do? You subscribe. You like and subscribe. You give it. Some stars just show us a little appreciation. And that's not for us, that is for everyone else. Because by you doing that it helps the algorithm to push it to more people so that they can also get this useful information. The second thing is if you don't have the time or energy to do that because, I don't know, you're driving, you're running, whatever it is you're doing as you're listening to this, the next time someone brings up the conversation about money, tell them about a great podcast you heard. And with that, we will see you next time on the Money Script Podcast. Everyone take care.

Seth Harrison 35:26

That's it for today's episode of Becoming an Attendant. Did you pick up something valuable to carry into your next step? I hope so. Remember, the journey is a marathon, not a sprint, so take one step at a time and give yourself grace along the way. Also, this isn't intended to be specific tax or legal advice. Please talk to an attorney or CPA before taking any action. Before you go, please like comment and subscribe. If you're on YouTube, click the bell for notifications. Share this episode with one of your colleagues who's also on the path to becoming an ER physician. Share this episode with one of your colleagues who is also on the path to becoming an attending ER physician. The show notes also contain more.